It’s particularly concerning that you are accusing me of not being nuanced when your uncharitable interpretation of the conflict seems to suggest that Israel never had a right to be there in the first place.
I mean yes. Israel has been from the get go, ever since the planning stage, a settler colonialist Apartheid state. The sales pitch has always been “Let’s steal Palestinian lands and make them second class citizens”.
You mean in 1534 when they were permitted by Ottomans to establish a Jewish City-State?
Or maybe you mean in 1821 when the Jewish adviser and finance minister to the rulers of the Galilee, Haim Farkhi, was murdered and the Ottomans allowed their army to conquer Galilee?
Or maybe you mean in the late 19th century when they bought land from the Ottomans and peacefully settled?
Or maybe you mean in 1917 when the Ottomans deported them from Tel Aviv and Gaffa because the Ottomans were at war with the lands they immigrated from?
Or maybe you mean after 1917 when the obscure instructions of the British Mandate radicalized all of their Arab neighbors against them and galvanized the call to the violent eradication of Israel?
Or maybe you mean in 1921 and 1929 when Arab mobs violently attacked Jewish population centers?
Or maybe you mean in 1936-1939 when Arabs launched widespread attacks on both the British and the Jews?
Is it blatantly obvious how ridiculous your claim is yet, or do I need to keep going?
You mean in 1534 when they were permitted by Ottomans to establish a Jewish City-State?
Or maybe you mean in 1821 when the Jewish adviser and finance minister to the rulers of the Galilee, Haim Farkhi, was murdered and the Ottomans allowed their army to conquer Galilee?
I’m not even sure what these have to do with modern Israel, which is ideologically a late 19th/early 20th endeavor.
Everything since 1917 was with the intention of creating a Jewish-majority state in Palestine. Palestine that’s, for obvious reasons, populated with Palestinians basically everywhere. You can’t have a Jewish majority state in Palestine without kicking Palestinians out of their home; it’s just not physically possible. And then you had a “Jewish state” with as many Jews and as few Palestinians as possible. Does that sound like the blueprint for an egalitarian state?
I’m not even sure what these have to do with modern Israel, which is ideologically a late 19th/early 20th endeavor.
You don’t think that the established Jewish territory prior to and during the 20th century has anything to do with modern Israel? You think that the revitalization of a Jewish homeland was unique to Zionist ideology when their occupation of both Galilee and Jerusalem was sanctioned by the Ottomans in 1534-1742?
You can’t have a Jewish majority state in Palestine without kicking Palestinians out of their home; it’s just not physically possible.
Of course you can, you just need more than one state. This had been the plan instituted by the British, but the British Mandatory authorities strayed from the plan as I already stated.
Of course you can, you just need more than one state.
No, because like I said you can’t have a state without a majority, or at least a significant minority, of Palestinians. It’s geographically impossible. That goes directly counter to the Zionist goal of a Jewish state with as many Jews and as few Palestinians as possible.
It’s a hard problem to solve. Every time Jews had established themselves in the area they got conquered or kicked out, who’s to say it wouldn’t have just happened again? And it doesn’t help that 5 Arab nations initiated a war of extermination before Zionists had the chance to expose these alleged intentions of ethnic-cleansing. In fact, Israel’s actions of returning land they had captured whenever Arabs went to war with them seemed to be in direct contradiction of the allegations.
When I examine the entire chain of events, I see two sides that had unrelenting ideologies. Not one.
Every time Jews had established themselves in the area they got conquered or kicked out, who’s to say it wouldn’t have just happened again?
What? Palestine has had Jews ever since the Arab conquest.
And it doesn’t help that 5 Arab nations initiated a war of extermination before Zionists had the chance to expose these alleged intentions of ethnic-cleansing.
Uh… There had been numerous massacres before Arab involvement in the war. Remember Dier Yassin?
In early April 1948, the Israelis launched Plan Dalet, a large-scale offensive to capture land and empty it of Palestinian Arabs.
In fact, Israel’s actions of returning land they had captured whenever Arabs went to war with them seemed to be in direct contradiction of the allegations.
Uh… What? Israel definitely didn’t return that land because they wanted to. Just look at the Golan Heights.
I mean yes. Israel has been from the get go, ever since the planning stage, a settler colonialist Apartheid state. The sales pitch has always been “Let’s steal Palestinian lands and make them second class citizens”.
You mean in 1534 when they were permitted by Ottomans to establish a Jewish City-State?
Or maybe you mean in 1821 when the Jewish adviser and finance minister to the rulers of the Galilee, Haim Farkhi, was murdered and the Ottomans allowed their army to conquer Galilee?
Or maybe you mean in the late 19th century when they bought land from the Ottomans and peacefully settled?
Or maybe you mean in 1917 when the Ottomans deported them from Tel Aviv and Gaffa because the Ottomans were at war with the lands they immigrated from?
Or maybe you mean after 1917 when the obscure instructions of the British Mandate radicalized all of their Arab neighbors against them and galvanized the call to the violent eradication of Israel?
Or maybe you mean in 1921 and 1929 when Arab mobs violently attacked Jewish population centers?
Or maybe you mean in 1936-1939 when Arabs launched widespread attacks on both the British and the Jews?
Is it blatantly obvious how ridiculous your claim is yet, or do I need to keep going?
I’m not even sure what these have to do with modern Israel, which is ideologically a late 19th/early 20th endeavor.
Everything since 1917 was with the intention of creating a Jewish-majority state in Palestine. Palestine that’s, for obvious reasons, populated with Palestinians basically everywhere. You can’t have a Jewish majority state in Palestine without kicking Palestinians out of their home; it’s just not physically possible. And then you had a “Jewish state” with as many Jews and as few Palestinians as possible. Does that sound like the blueprint for an egalitarian state?
You don’t think that the established Jewish territory prior to and during the 20th century has anything to do with modern Israel? You think that the revitalization of a Jewish homeland was unique to Zionist ideology when their occupation of both Galilee and Jerusalem was sanctioned by the Ottomans in 1534-1742?
Of course you can, you just need more than one state. This had been the plan instituted by the British, but the British Mandatory authorities strayed from the plan as I already stated.
No, because like I said you can’t have a state without a majority, or at least a significant minority, of Palestinians. It’s geographically impossible. That goes directly counter to the Zionist goal of a Jewish state with as many Jews and as few Palestinians as possible.
Completely baseless. Take it up with the British Mandate authority and the League of Nations that wanted them to be able to stand on their own.
I mean yes I do think the British and the League of Nations are as responsible for the current state of Palestine as Zionists.
It’s a hard problem to solve. Every time Jews had established themselves in the area they got conquered or kicked out, who’s to say it wouldn’t have just happened again? And it doesn’t help that 5 Arab nations initiated a war of extermination before Zionists had the chance to expose these alleged intentions of ethnic-cleansing. In fact, Israel’s actions of returning land they had captured whenever Arabs went to war with them seemed to be in direct contradiction of the allegations.
When I examine the entire chain of events, I see two sides that had unrelenting ideologies. Not one.
What? Palestine has had Jews ever since the Arab conquest.
Uh… There had been numerous massacres before Arab involvement in the war. Remember Dier Yassin?
Uh… What? Israel definitely didn’t return that land because they wanted to. Just look at the Golan Heights.